I'm sure others here will clarify.And apparently we will all know more in January. Hired at L58 in 2000 - Currently L62 and the last 2 promos were at 18mo intervals. What I've learned is be very, very specific on your commits and accountabilites. Our entire unit was let go but we were moved to different groups in the org. No managers seems to want to talk to the previous managers for promo stuff and each wants at least 12 mos of time to think to observer. And, ironically, some titles make your manager automatically have to adjust your level after a certain time, in order to comply with certainly HR guidelines.- Buy your principal a coffee, hear everything, and dont follow everything. Someone that 20 years ago made something as complex as Notepad may today be a VP, whereas if you make Notepad today you may not even get a pat on the back. Get a free, personalized salary estimate based on today's job market. Wish I this post and comments laminated about 10 years ago after I wasn't going to get rich off stock.My comment to add is to those who are put into situations of continual reorgs and want to achieve the 'Senior'. For others, the picture will not be so clear and they may place more weight on perceptions or a set of isolated incidents. Satya Nadella. and It going to be more about survival in the current business climate. My manager told me a while ago that I was about to get one. If you want the longest Microsoft career possible, why advance any faster than you have to. Promotion budgets of 65 and above has been kept intact.Can somebody from HR confirm this?If true then this post is quite untimely. Keep my word. That's not going to change in six months (which I learned). You want to be more efficient, smarter than him. "We have a stable and relatively easy job, and as long as we achieve, we will not get fired." It's because you were playing catch-up to Apple, and playing Machiavellian games with the media companies instead of working on the issues that your customers were complaining about.Vista is still unreliable, unsecurable, and a massive pain in the ass to use on a daily basis. The key thing is finding the right team and manager, along with the comments you made. Feedback is not detailed or actionable. Thanx for it. Advice from anyone at Microsoft for 10+ years is great to hear, but hard to follow. In my group that's the really tough one. Eventually, their team will remove itself from his control through internal transfers to teams with better managers, and the asshole ends up getting canned in a re-org if he doesn't see the writing on the wall and use his Apple resume entry to jump to some other company.The fact that you praise someone for "junk yard dog mode" shows me that Microsoft has a fundamentally broken corporate culture, and that you are part of the problem.-jcr, Think of the guy in the other companyI don't like where this is goingThat is the guy to beat.No, No, NO!Think of the customer, not the competition! Amazon, Go to company page Give the employee directives and start documenting when they fail so a case can be brought to get rid of them if it comes to that. Staff Software Engineer, Google Cloud Platforms, Senior Staff Software Engineer, Infrastructure, Principal Engineer, Developer Platform Systems, Senior Software Engineer, Mobile (Android), AR. But it is also clear that there are places at Microsoft where these skills are not required until higher.I have a 62 test somehow make it to dev with mediocre dev skills, social skills limited to indifference or hostility, who managed to delegate most of the hard work to a smart kid hired to work with him and he made it to 63. Apple should in no way be throwing stones at Microsoft in this regard. You broke the trust cycle so don't expect anything else. .css-1odorsr{display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}.css-1ln5qhx{-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}.css-1dmvvgc{margin:0;color:#0060b9;-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}Get your salary negotiated .css-1npej63{-webkit-user-select:none;-moz-user-select:none;-ms-user-select:none;user-select:none;width:1em;height:1em;display:inline-block;fill:currentColor;-webkit-flex-shrink:0;-ms-flex-negative:0;flex-shrink:0;-webkit-transition:fill 200ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1) 0ms;transition:fill 200ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1) 0ms;font-size:1.25rem;margin-left:-4px;}or your resume reviewed by the real experts - recruiters who do it daily. You should be on the same side. Ive seen many people who didnt quite fit at MS go off and be very successful at other companies, starting their own biz, changing careers, by finding a better fit for themselves. Mini -- you left out the most important option, which I took. After I became a lead & manager, I was given a team in turmoil after a re-org and straightened that out. In spite of it, I've been promoted 8 times in 12 years. Satya Nadella. It's not enough that you do a good job for your own assignments beyond L62 but what matters is how many others you enable to do as good job as you can do and achieve similar outcomes by influencing them. The average entry-level engineer or program manager will have a total compensation of $125,665. Thank goodness for this blog, where MS employees are free to talk about their personal struggles, unlike "other" blogs that censor/prohibit such discussions, so that they can live in some fantasy land and avoid dealing with the real issues. Could be principal engineer, principal engineering manager, could even be director depending on the org. Experienced Digital Transformation & creative leader with a strong executive presence, experienced in creating value, building relationships & consensus across board-level client executives that . Why cannot we have our address title reflect our level as everybody else in the company? Executive Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer. Is there a way one can dream of getting promoted in this noxious environment which is the oabg? Microsoft How bad is this? You need to consider how you can compete with the pizza eating 25 year olds that don't have a life and work 80 hours a week. I am a troll. Think of the guy in the other company, the guy who is building something that competes with you, with your team. The education qualifications required for various roles for Technical track are: The highest job title in management track in Microsoft is "Vice President (VP)". L65 here, worked up from L59 (actually, 10 in the old system).The key is always to keep your eye on the goal. Seek out local critique before you approach people above you. "Well please don't just tease us and leave it there. What is up with the gold star awards? Let's compare answers answer is: your boss. 3. And do you anticipate what happened when I made the next move to Dev Manager position? Sometimes i laugh when i read the armchair CEO's on this thread - there is a lot of criticism of Steve, but 99% of our brains would absolutely pop if we had to confront the complexity of decisions he makes in one day. Answer to second question is never ever explicitly try to make yourself known to hierarchy above your manager. Asshole managers aren't unknown at Apple [] The fact that you praise someone for "junk yard dog mode" shows me that Microsoft has a fundamentally broken corporate cultureThanks for a nice belly laugh to re-energize my morning. Because when it comes time to roll people out of the team (as teams do from time to time) this "No, never" a marker that is used to help figure out who - at I and II CSP levels - is either on-track or out. When she finally left the company four years ago things improved greatly. First let's set the expectations right for this quarter and possibly the next: The budgets for promos are shrunk almost everywhere. Both job switches came from conversations I had with former co-workers or former directors. It's just that the scope is different. Also known as executive-level, senior-level seniority requires a high level of experience, knowledge and responsibility within a company. Write it down in a team-culture career section you keep in OneNote (start that section now if you don't have it). You don't get your money by snatching it out of Google or Apple's hands, you get it by convincing your customers to hand it to you.Do you want to know why Vista is such an unmitigated disaster? Attack problems within your own areas of influence proactively and generate that same good vibe among peers. It's a good time to flip back through that. They have commitments to grow their employees. Continuously revisit those and discuss with your manager. If I was 65/66 material, why did they wait until I gave notice to offer me the promotion? Titles are important, and dont let anyone make you believe otherwise. This past year I had what I thought was an outstanding year, was given a 20%, but not promoted to L63. The average salary for a Senior Director is $170,707 per year in United States, which is 65% lower than the average Microsoft salary of $500,742 per year for this job. If you have potential and luck then you can achieve promotion velocity of one level every 18 months.Finally, heres my advice for who aspire for L62->L63 jump: Look around. This will bump you off the fast-track 96% of the time.No matter how bad things are, always be positive, and provide a recommendation for how to address each problem. One, we bill customers higher for higher levels and we call everyone 'highly experienced' or even an 'architect'. You can be a genius of blinding brilliance, but if you come from a boring product team, you "don't have much potential". The current distribution is simply pathetic.. All of my peers are SDE II's, so L61-L62.The advice is simple:First, NAIL the fundamentals. below 63 one has low influence and above 64, it is more strategizing and less execution.Overall, my experience has been that promotion is the effect of results and good work. Nowadays, having been there and moved up, I would highly prefer someone that already succeeded as a Lead at Microsoft than a star individual contributor. Wow. I could make changes quickly and with quality. Will a L63 have direct reports and/or manage v-? Often this is where a perceived negative attitude or lack of soft skills will hurt you the most.Your immediate boss can often look beyond that to the benefit you bring to the organization - mostly because it also directly benefits him or her. similar to maybe how EY says senior manager is Director (pwc, kpmg) equivalent. I will mis-direct and confuse you with hearsay. Those people are almost all Level 62's with few prospects. Yes, "soft skills" count.I'm pleased that someone said it.There are a collection of skills that are difficult to quantify that are absolute necessities to succeeding at higher levels. I haven't seen one single person getting hired below L63 in my group during last year. Just pick one Job id, prepare for it and then go for internal. I influenced the features, I lended my expertise on them, and I learned about the customer - all this way before the spec'ing phase. Highly effective Finance leadership; ability to deliver results by leading through example while setting high personal standards; Partnering with the business and influencing . (this is never a bad idea anyway) Then, if you are doing as good a job as he, he will want you as a peer in level, if not, then he can help you grow. Here are some thoughts from a L62-er who truly wants to accept whats keeping me from getting to 63 and work on it. I've also worked for great managers, and worked with great people on my team. Don't give up.I'd appreciate it if you'd do a similar post on the 65 to 65 transition. Then I would get emails rating my abilities in these areas that I had no input into it and any replies rebutting it would go unanswered. Framed on my former VP's wall:"High-level guys are low-level guys that don't whine.". I joined The Company 2 weeks ago, far from 63, but all you said it's very valuable for defining a career path. Your Team: you have to be able to understand why the L63s and L64s are where they are. What if you and your manager are at the same level L62. Finally I got involved and had a one/one with the employee during which I asked him why do you continually insist on doing Y when your mgr asks you to do X? I nearly fell of my chair when he said because I want to get promoted and I know that to get promoted I need to do Y. We need to grow out of this bad legacy syndrome that we still have. Of course, it goes without saying that if you dont have any substance you will likely hurt yourself badly and get ignored with vengeance next time. That is why to get to L65 a VP level person must know your work and be able to recall your name without help. Let's slim down Microsoft into a lean, mean, efficient customer pleasing profit making machine! Most Directors are 63 and the occasional 64. I've seen L65's who can't own a cardboard box, let alone a room.Well you know, don't go for them for advice! Don't make promises to follow up on things and then let them drop. We all know how many architects there are but isn't Senior the same thing nowadays ? Got two promotions - still level 60If you really got promoted twice then you would have advanced 2 levels.Either you didn't actually get promoted, or someone told you lies. Furthermore, after reaching a plateua in order to get to the next level of development there is usually a dip in the current performance as the learner starts temporarily letting go of some of the skills they have mastered in order to experiment and try new things. To the guy you said:I'd like to hear some more experiences from MCS. I've been hearing some stealth layoffs around the SQL and BOSG groups, around 70+ people were given 6(?) I think talking about level just confuses people as beyond US there is a different level system!L63 in the US is Senior (Level 60 in most of the other countries), well, moving to Senior is not such a big thing if you have experience, with more than 10 years in the industry I was hired at this level, now Senior II is just a matter of continuing contributing but the different comes to Principal (or lead), here is where you need to shine in order to succeed.Recommendation: Work not only towards your commitments but your managers as well As a former L65 (left MSFT about two months ago) I can say you are right on when it comes to understanding where your boss stands. If you job simply doesn't scale to that next level - and many don't / can't - then you need to build rapport with your manager to have a focused career discussion about what roles are around to get you there and how you could land in one.2. If you get caught in a review and someone hits a fastball by you and you stumble, the people above you suddenly have fears that you might stumble when they and you are in front of the person who controls their careers. Shock and awe awaits. but I have to disagree with this statement.While it is true that it is difficult for managers to say what *exactly* an employee should do to get to the next level, it *should not* be impossible to list what experiences/qualities/results will qualify him to be a *strong* candidate for promotion to the next level.And this should not be that difficult - it is just a matter of syncing up with the peer leads, and dev manager, and discussing what their perception of an L63 is vs l62. You're selling it in no less than eight different SKUs, (including the upgrades) and your marketing message is deliberately obfuscated to convince the customers to go for the most expensive one. because I have never seen the above formula fail with me in many years or people I know (a sample set of hundreds of person-years), I would agree, right now, level is deflated, 64, and 65 are real barriers, and salary level expand as well. Alternately, you can increase the scope of your own job and justify an increased level.So the only real question is, what do you need to do differently at the higher level? Despite the fact you may be totally right, you can inadvertently be viewed as a negative person.Although your bosses are probably aware of the problems, they might be overwhelmed by the scope of the situation, and start getting annoyed at you for being the person always reminding them about the flaws. Senior level executive excelling at increasing operational efficiencies, improving . weeks to find another position within the company, otherwise they are laid off.Given 6 weeks to find a position now is a suicide (since most groups can't hire due to the freeze). Had I only known this info when I started at Microsoft. > What if you and your manager are at the same level L62. The team that gave me the Dev Lead title made a bet on me, and they were not disappointed, since I worked hard to prove myself at that title (despite having to wait a little longer for a level promotion). Microsoft senior leadership team under Satya Nadella Tech Here are the most important execs at Microsoft under Satya Nadella Jordan Novet @jordannovet Key Points Microsoft's executive team. my recommendation is you take the offer if you've gone this far. The Job titles for this position are: Software Development Engineer SDE Steven A. Ballmer Chief Executive Officer, Microsoft Corporation. Microsoft, Go to company page Also, go mine some of Dr. Brechner's Hard Code columns. It turns out that typically your immediate manager has little control, it's all decided at higher levels. It's not easy. Copyright 2008-2023, Glassdoor, Inc. "Glassdoor" and logo are registered trademarks of Glassdoor, Inc. I have seen people turn it around. It's probably true that there's more to the story and that they actually have important skills that matter. It is true you can always do that, go to Google, go to ABC, or whatever. Candidates should have a Ph.D. in Physics and a strong commitment to undergraduate education. If you're going into that comfort zone of complaining about politics and butt-kissing and favorites, do me this favor: hold your right palm up, nice and flat like you're about to be sworn in to testify in a trial, and now extend your right arm out nice and wide, and then quickly swing your right arm around the front of you in a nice arc that ends with the flat of your right hand quickly connecting to the left side of your face for a hard, resounding slap. The last thing I would ever think about is what my boss thinks of me; I just don't care. You can forge a great partnership and accomplish a lot. Why? I myself am a L62 on the cusp of a midyear promo after 18 months. In fact, every boss I've had has told me that I was the most frustrating employee they've ever had, mostly because I ignore half the things they ask me to doAnyhow, here's my advice: do a good job.That's it. If you want to succeed at Microsoft (or anywhere else where you have a boss), the most important thing you can do is figure out exactly what your management wants from you and then make sure you deliver it in spades.Junior people often make the mistake of thinking this means "I will do my job to the best of my ability" and then they go off and work really REALLY hard at things their management doesn't find nearly as important as they do and so come review time these folks are *shocked* to hear that all of their blood, sweat and tears did not make the impression they'd hoped. If I ever do decide to come back to MSFT, I will do so as a level 68+ and nothing less. Or - are they going to take the easy path and sack people in Europe and Asia? Microsoft Corp. engages in the development and support of software, services, devices, and solutions. I think getting promoted elsewhere is not as tough as getting promoted in CTS-GTSC. * One final important thought that hasn't been mentioned here and that is very dear to my heart is one that is not only specific to 63 but also to 65+, 66+, and 67+, and it is about moving up when you are a female at MSFT. I started at 59 and just got promoted to 63 a couple months ago. Absolutely. >> You forgot "never ask for a promotion".That's the absolute worst advice one can give to a Microsoft employee, IMO. ?I work in MSN and we still have no way to know the levels of our peers. In short there are lot many ways to influence others and infect the best ones are not being a manager :). In general, these designations are based on rank, with the highest director position being the executive director or director of operations. My rent contract was renewed in September and I have to find another person or risk loosing a 1000 bucks, Mini,Asshole managers aren't unknown at Apple, but when they appear, it doesn't take long before the rest of the organization figures them out and isolates them. This means there are 24 distinct job levels at Microsoft. How many has Live hired this year and OneCare gets cut? L7 equals L64 or L65. If so, then you're going to have a hard time finding senior IC spots anywhere. I have some colleagues now stuck with a career that they dont really want because they move up too much. Feel free to . Think about why they're able to do that.-jcr. The Senior Director provides leadership, establishes operational objectives, policies, procedures and works plans and oversee the program to ensure maximum profitability through efficient service delivery, effective client management, and strategic allocation of resources.

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