For this pilot (tail number N731NR abbreviated to N1NR), it wasn't a mistake as noted by the following exchange: LAS Approach: "N1NR, I need you outside of the Bravo"N731NR: "Negative"LAS: "Negative what? The duration of aircraft registration certificates has been extended up to 7 years. Unfortunately, that's not what happened. Please provide a copy of all records previously provided under FOIA request: 2020-007074WS . Just like the American pilots did when they couldn't get runway 31 at JFK. The compilation is based on data from the agency's Enforcement Information System (EIS). Clearly not the kind of temperament needed to be a pilot. To cross LAS B airspace to get to HND is To cross LAS B airspace to get to HND is beyond my ability to grasp. I was interested in being a Pilot but it shocks me how awful other pilots can be, they even revert to ganging up or saying a terrible thing because of a mistake another pilot made as if they "the great one" has never made a mistake in their life. ATC either turns him around or gives him a better heading. There are reasons for the rules. Hey not fair to say that to PIA. Amelia McGillManagement & Program Analyst (FOIA Coordinator)FAA-Office of Foundational BusinessCorrespondence Services Branch, AFB-130424-405-7221. N1NR answers back that "he's flying". "LAS: "No"N731NR: "Yes! I looked back over it, and finally saw the one you mentioned, somehow missed it before. It should be a few hundred. When the controller said he was Researching this pilot's flight with FlightAware and Flightradar24 a much clearer picture emerges. Without that you cannot enter class B airspace. 1NR, exit the Bravo immediately"N731NR (whining): "I've been talking to you the whole time. ATC Audio: Negligent Pilot Argues With Air Traffic Controller, I love listening to air traffic control audio, Not Good: Boom Overture Left Without Engines, Factorydesigns Innovative New Narrow Body Business Class Seat, Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners. What's the big deal? As well as this, any pilot in command that deviates from an ATC clearance in an emergency, or in response to a traffic alert and collision avoidance system resolution advisory should notify the ATC of the deviation as soon as possible. I hope that this finds you well and safe, We apologize for the delay in response. When approach calls tower about a deviation, they may or may not give details. Karen Mosley apparetly is clueless about aviation. This guy is a real threat to himself and others. She was far better to him than a lot of NY approach controllers are to good pilots on a good day (and I like NY approach, by the way). The ONLY reason aviation is the safest form of transportation is precisely because everything is taken so seriously. With respect to my comment above (cant edit), delete the word email from the comment (next to last word). no no, Im saying the process in place is unnecessary - this phone call is more like a call to an upset friend than what is supposed to a dispassionate, factual entity (ATC, FAA). I'm not so sure she would know how to "buy a clue"!? Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. He refuses to leave airspace even though he never had clearance to fly through it, and he refuses to take down a number because hes flying., Hopefully an investigation is done and this guy loses his license. I'm a commercial pilot and CFII. I won't belabor those points. She was released later on. The dude that delivered it to the lake about busted the landing. Outside of banner ads published through the Boarding Area network, this compensation does not impact how and where products appear on this site. If you do receive a brasher warning, you should know that you do not have to call the provided telephone straight away, and you are allowed to take some time to think about the situation that has occurred. It would be one thing if he "unintentionally" violated the Class B airspace (how exactly do you do that in this day and age?). > Word of caution: the owner of the aircraft is easily found, and plenty of information is out there. Thank you. Maybe, just maybe this controller was playing her Bravo authority a little too far? The magic words that should raise the hairs on the back of your neck are "possible pilot deviation." It goes without saying that you should remain vigilant as you fly around the national. The guy is completely wrong, sad thing is he will probably only get a slap on the wrist. > Nobody gives a f*. Yes humans make mistakes, and that is why aviation has the strictest protocols outside Oh my gosh! The overall outcome will depend on the situation in question and the consequences of the incident. I hope this guy is ready to hear a lot of "unable VFR services" or "radar services terminated, squawk VFR, frequency change approved" when they recognize who he is again. The few concerns about behavior affected by incipient tumor or hypoxia bring back memories. Student - he did get his private after 3 more months of practice. Reminds me of center frequencies ignoring calls from VFR aircraft. Its ridiculous that youre allowed to take the control of a Cessna independently at 60-80 hours of learning. But you'd think that someone displaying this much attitude and disrespect for critical rules would have shown his true colors and been denied a license much earlier. This was a blatant disregard of regulations after being told to exit the Class B. This should help to give you a better understanding of pilot deviation and the risks that are associated with it. That being said, its not just a comfort level thing or willingness issue - its often a safety Im an air traffic controller in a class B airspace (one of the 8 US airports busier than LAS) and I have to admit that Im occasionally underwhelmed by the services that my coworkers are willing to provide; how unenthusiastic they can be about working a little harder to allow a VFR aircraft to enter the airspace. 731NR | Pilots of America Home Forums Controlled Airspace Flight Following 731NR Discussion in ' Flight Following ' started by WWFeldman, Oct 29, 2020 . Due to the multiple violations including multiple times refusing to obey an ATC order, I am hoping the pilot's license is suspended at a minimum. Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by WWFeldman, Oct 29, 2020. I love listening to air traffic control audio, either just live, or recordings of interesting interactions. This incident is recorded as all radio communications between planes and ATC are definitely recorded as a matter of public record:https://onemileatatime.com/atc-audio-negligent-pilot/. "Negative, November-one-romeo (N1NR)" would be the appropriately phrased response. We have your student at the local FBO, and one of my people has the keys. @Wingslover said, "If youre having medical issues or youre feeling unwell youre not supposed to be in command of an aircraft.". If this pilot had any sense he would have self reported because his flight recording through the area shows something different than what he thought. The owner of that plane holds a Commercial Pilot Certificate. Official websites use .govA .gov website belongs to an official government organization in the United States. would argue at times. "N731NR (again, whining): "I requested Bravo clearance about 15 miles ago. At the point you're referring to he was a FREAKING IDIOT who SHOULD LOSE HIS CERT violating airspace. It causes paperwork (at the very least) on both sides and is also distracting from other important duties. We will also go into the consequences that could occur if you were to get into trouble for this. She should have vectored him out after he refused. You should be ashamed. Interceptions are dangerous and that jet blast and thrust from either twin thrust (F-15) or single thrust (F-16) could put the Cessna into a dangerous condition. The craziest part in all of this is that when the pilot later talks to Henderson Tower after landing, the controller says I dont know what happened but from what you say, sorry for the service. I guess he was trying to be professional, but this is one of those cases where he was being too nice, given that the pilot was just about 100% in the wrong, while the controller was just about 100% in the right. Pull that @$$holes license and give him a huge fine. In aviation, Bravo airspace or Class B space is a zone around some of the busiest airports that no plane or helicopter is allowed to enter without permission. It appears that this pilot is a child of the "Magenta Line", it looks like he flies with automation on a lot. Privacy Policy. But Id recommend against posting it, even if that person turns out to be the idiot in question. The worst case scenario would not be to lose your certificate. My local airport is RDU. Tower: "N12345, I'll call your right turn north east. Humans make mistakes sometimes its not a reason to bully somebody. We cannot possibly explain reasoning behind every denial of service at the time it happens. It seems like the pilot was intent on entering Bravo with or without permission. Anarchists on the ground, anarchists in the air. That kind of thing happens every day. a responsibility to operate safely and competently within the FARs regardless of the price of your plane. The few concerns about behavior affected by incipient tumor or hypoxia bring back memories. He's going to find it hard for anyone to swallow his excuses. . This will come out in time. Sometimes they have multiple frequencies on the same station, so you might hear more than one controller. Thank one every time you get where you're going. Attached is the letter in response to your above mentioned FOIA request. The pilot was asked to leave, but decides to stay. The more belligerent she became the more concerned the staff was. When Can I Apply For Student Pilot Certificate? I wish there was a portal where we could interject and tell the FAA to shove one up this guy's six. Please send comments to the following: http://av-info.faa.gov/feedback, Subject: FOIA 2020-007191WS Anonymous (Laing). Humans make mistakes sometimes its not a reason to bully somebody. I'm the ATC supervisor in FSD is NxxxxR still owned by (bus name). And the incidents you mention are the exact reason for the existence of Bravo and Charlie airspace in the first place. 1) Probably not hypoxia. They don't take airspace incursions lightly, ESPECIALLY in the #8 most busy airport in the US. Always IFR but I still We all know the pilot was wrong but. maybe he's tired of the attitude of that particular class bravo. Making excuses for people gets others killed. This pilot came in over Lake Meade under the class B which requires no ATC clearance to operate an aircraft. 07-Oct-2022. You have to request Bravo clearance.Pilot: I requested Bravo clearance about 15 miles ago.ATC: Nobody cleared you through the Bravo but me.Pilot: Then clear me through.ATC: No!Pilot: Yes!. Additionally while it is not required to end a conversation with ATC with the tail number, it is customary to do so for many reasons. Been there, done that. Nobody in Vegas is "allergic to rules." I'd very much like to know. Publicado el junio 1, 2022 por junio 1, 2022 por Commercial Pilot U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Aviation Administration 800 Independence Avenue, SW Washington, DC 20591 1-866-TELL-FAA (1-866-835-5322) How hard would it be to just clear him through? It's not just the danger of him putting his plane where he shouldn't have been--there is the addition of the energy spent dealing with him (multiple radio calls taking time away from other tasks, plus building frustration--controllers are human too, and this stuff can really foul your day). I dont know what will fix that. The other pilot had it right - he's a real a*&^. This may come as a shock to you, but us general aviation Cesena (sic) clowns have as much right to use the airspace as any commercial operation. saturn in ardra nakshatra pada 2 n731nr pilot deviation. What would the discussion be today if there had been a midair collision like the one in San Diego in 1979 with the PSA 727 and a Cessna? For more information, please see our I was the 16yo kid working the desk when his #2 instructor sent a private student off on his long cross country and controlled airspace solo flight he went to lunch. Caller - oh you might say that. The guy is completely wrong, sad thing is he will probably only get a slap on the wrist. I drove IP the 95 miles to FSD and he had a session with the controller and the supervisor. These guys & women keep 10-20 balls in the air constantly..you think you can do better?? @Coinneach - Im fully aware of their rights, and I do not have to agree with it. That's the whole point of talking to you.". It is really important to understand how severe the consequences can be. 24 votes, 30 comments. His license should be permanently revoked. . 2021.4.14.1400. Eg. This letter acknowledges receipt of your FOIA request dated May 27, 2020, regarding any accident, investigation, pilot deviation reports, legal enforcement actions, or FSDO records, regarding a possible pivot deviation on June 20, 2020 where N731NR may have entered Bravo airspace without clearance. Who knows what the FAA would consider a serious offense if we ever make a legitimate error? The Original Donna: Class Bravo & Charlie airspace requires certain verbal permission to fly in/out/ and through it, but you have basic lack of understanding when it comes to the airspace system I fear. However, the penalties for pilot deviation can be quite severe, which is something that you should be aware of. This is serious,you can't be that blatantly disobedient. Possible Pilot Deviation Imagine you're the PIC, departing from Runway 27L. . You'd be surprised how many Pilots act like they are the only plane an ATC is working even tho she is nonstop talking sequencing Arrivals to one of the top 5 busiest airports in the USA!!! The FARs couldn't be more clear on this situation. She didn't offer a heading or instruction to resolve the issue. Runway 27L, cleared for takeoff." You respond appropriately. When you have 2 F-16s or 2 F-15s escorting you that should bring sense into your head faster than having the nerve to argue. The begged question is false. He responds he requested clearance previously. Almost would have met you that day but water saved me. Pull that @$$holes license and give him a huge fine. Thank you in advance for your anticipated cooperation in this matter. It's clear the supe was not impressed by how the controller handled the situation either. I was really busy at the time and he took up much of my time and reduced the safe operation of the airspace. The guy should be grounded for a nice long while. Unless it has been authorized by the ATC, no pilot should operate an aircraft according to any clearance or instruction that has been issued to the pilot of another aircraft. Caller - is he available, Have you ever said That's a terrible thing to say, that a pilot should lose his license. Other pilots chimed in calling him for what he was. I'm only going this way because something in his demeanor smells like something else is at play. Please provide this information by COB, on Friday July 17, 2020, or we will go with the last known requestor from MuckRock.com, who we are showing as Matthew Phelan. But N1NR wants clearance nonetheless and is refusing to leave. Is there any way you can vector me through? Also in this case, N1NR is crossing directly into the path of other aircraft's landing approach (2 Southwest airplanes at that moment were landing). Neil Wilsonthe CFIIsays "maybe the controller was playing her class BRAVO authority a little too far".. You should not be a CFII with that kind of attitude. Word of caution: the owner of the aircraft is easily found, and plenty of information is out there. E The FAA can pull your medical for almost any reason, and you will need some pretty expensive doctor's appointments to get it back. - file an IFR (instrument flight rules) flight plan that gives you the same priority as airline traffic. I've been given instructions that I don't agree with. Me - no sir back in aprox 20mts. Undiagnosed tumors and the like can lead to emotional regulation problems and impaired judgement. 2020-007191WS Anonymous (Laing) Invoice.pdf, 2020-007191WS Anonymous (Laing) PDPNR.pdf, Subject: RE: Freedom of Information Act Request #2020-007191. Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners. Any follow up on this? If you are in trouble for pilot deviation, the results could be very bad. No request for Bravo clearance is heard.While it is not known what N1NR said in the last exchange, this is the nature of radio communications as some transmissions do not go through. She kept phoning her father, a MD in LA and complaining about her mistreatment and threatening everybody with lawsuits.

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